Hello, welcome to another episode of Islamic focus. I’m your host, Ahmed Rashid. We’re continuing with our TensorFlow series dealing with the sources of Islam. Today we’ll continue our discussion of the authorship of the Quran. This is our first program dealing with this particular topic, will be examining the role that visions may have played in the revelation of the Quran. I have joined me on the program as usual. My good friend, Dr. Jamal Baddeley of St. Mary’s University, Baba Jamal assalamu, alaikum poly Kusama. Before we get into today’s program, I have to go back and just quickly summarize the main points that we touched on in our fourth program on this topic of
authorship of the crime where we’re discussing the possible role of epilepsy.
Well, in the second, third and fourth programs in this series, and the main question, as you said, was to examine who is the author of the Quran,
and the first three programs in that particular topic, you know, two, three and four, and focus mainly on the issue of deliberate fabrication, whether the Prophet might have deliberately claimed that the Quran is from Allah while he was himself, the author of it. In the fifth segment that we discussed last week,
we started to analyze the position of those who could not help when they started the life of the Prophet, but admits his just witness that Justin tried to reconcile that with the rejection of the Quran, as divine revelation by seeking some kind of psychic explanation. So the last program was mainly in the issue of the epilepsy whether epilepsy had anything to do with the revelation of the Quran.
to approach that question, we started first by summarizing the information that we have, historically about the state of the Prophet when he received revelation, and then moved to the authorities in psychiatry to examine the nature of epilepsy, how it’s defined, what are the various types of epilepsy, the for various types that we discussed before. And by examining them we have seen, but their symptoms are quite inconsistent, and not really related in any essential way to the experience of the Prophet during the state of Revelation. And when he concluded that, that the Quran after all is available in our hands. And if anyone suspected This is a result of epileptic seizure,
let him or her read the Quran.
And we know that people in epilepsy would not attach such kind of wisdom. Like I said before, some people say that if this is the product of epilepsy, then we can do with a lot more epileptic people like that. It’s just something that’s totally unreasonable to assume. Maybe that’s why,
comparatively, this painting of Prophet Muhammad as an athletic person, while still resistance, some lighting, seem to have been less than it used to be in the past, because I can modern information on epilepsy does not seem to support that at all.
But now turning to our discussion today, one fact of how you first of all explained to us these variety of visions, and how, in your opinion relates to the explanation of the source of the of the con. What this is another attempt, again, to reconcile admitting that oppression is just one instance here, but in the meantime, say know what he said it came from himself without feeling it.
And the basic notion behind it is that they say, a person who’s deeply religious may go through certain religious or spiritual experience or virtual visions, and then this visions he may think that his own thoughts have a different source. So without really deliberately language changing a person may sincerely think that this idea is actually came to him from some other side source.
The classical example that some people perhaps give, and this experience is the story of Joan of Arc.
And it’s very strong
that some people try to make an analogy between that and or similar you know, religious visions and the revelation of the Quranic just like saying, the elephant and the trees are basically the same because both of them have trunks completely composer
was boosting I haven’t ever heard of that myself, I want to perhaps I could ask you to just briefly tell us about Joan of Arc and how how the connection sometimes is made? How does it relate to the revelation of the Quran, when Jennifer arc as described by historian was a pious and deeply religious young girl
who was at the same time also a staunch nationalist.
France at that time was under the assumption
in the customer was under the domination and role of the British.
And there’s so much left her country that she really wanted to liberate her country from this foreign domination.
She tried all means to seek all kinds of help in order to mobilize and motivate our people to gain their independence.
Part of that was even seeking the help of the government.
But in this kind of political or charged political atmosphere and nationalism and love of the country,
she became a began to be convinced as historian say that she is destined
to lead her people towards liberation. That’s why we found her speaking about voices and visions that you claim has come to her.
This claim
or
experience that she reported, was very enthusiastically accepted by her people who, by the way, as some disturbing discovering very prone to this type of
offense. So they accepted that explanation became very staunch believers of general art. And that led eventually to their victory, In Memoriam in 1429.
Now, the point here is that
it is interesting to talk about the study of Gen X.
But it was certainly inexcusable. To make an analogy between Gen of Iraq and Lebanon revelation to prophets, let alone to the last prophet, Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
Because you’re really comparing here a limited phenomenon,
sorts of visions which could happen also in many cases, other than the study of Joan of Arc,
something which is quite limited.
Leaving a particular political movement for a certain period was for a given purpose, liberation of this time,
an attitude which was enforced by religiosity and deep faith and
the piety of the individual on one hand, and the revelation given to the prophets, which is a much more why comprehensive formation not only intended for one purpose or under certain circumstances, but something that is much more lasting, every company comprehensive coverage of areas of belief, moral behavior, a total outline for a social system, sometimes even economic, like the case of economic and political system, something that has really changed the history of humanity in a very fundamental way. Something which was accompanied by stunning, quote, unquote miracles are something that simply could not be changed at all by those skeptics and led many of them actually to believe
in those prophets. Talking about
revelation given to the prophets, followed by hundreds upon hundreds of millions of people over 100 hundreds of years after compare that with a limited phenomena, like UNIVAC is definitely something which is really not
very relevant.
And I was really
quite amazed you know, that in a new encyclopedia called the new Catholic Encyclopedia, that the without any analysis, they just make this connection automatically, as if it’s a matter of course, between general American definition of the Quran which is, is lacking in substance. Perhaps I could get you to elaborate more on the gist of this theory and how was it applied to Muhammad
One of the proponents of that theory is a person that some people view as a much better writer about Islam in the sense of being reasonably fair and less biased than many writers who preceded him. But again, he falls into the same problem of not going far enough to admit the divine revelation of the Quran, that’s dominion,
dominion, in his book, The life of Muhammad.
His basic theory is that
and that’s not only his there are others also seem to follow the same way of thinking like Andre, for example.
And he says that
the
kind of sincerity and purity of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him,
might have led him
to reject the kind of corruption and lack of belief, or faith in God and this kind of paganism that was rampant among his people.
That he, because of his instinctive, pure nature and sincerity, through his own internal light, he saw that these things are wrong. So you had this pure innate nature with him.
He did not participate in the nodes of worship that his people did, or their evil deeds. And then he continues on, that he may have sought and contemplative about the need, and the hope that his people will improve and come to faith in God and improve on their modern behavior, and be guided to the source.
And then he goes on, he said, Prophet Muhammad might have also heard something about the beliefs of the Jews and Christians, and perhaps he did not accept many of the ideas like Trinity, for example, he did not find that very appealing way of explaining
about the creator’s divinity.
He says, also, you might have heard about
a prophet who was expected or prophesied to come about that time.
And in some cases, even the prophecies was that he will be coming from that area.
And he said that maybe this, this thoughts and ideas, would also serve as he might have gone into his mind,
and kept genic in his subconscious, until he was convinced, or as tour Andrey, another writer puts it, until he convinced himself really have some kind of secret desire, that he was not aware of, that he will be the reformer or the prophet
of that time.
And this kind of conviction, with sincerity led him to somehow
think or feeling,
most direct way to sell had some kind of illusion of voices, speaking to him, or even visual illusions of people talking to him, which he thought were engines and all that.
And then whatever he, you know, sort of in his subconscious, came into the open. And he sincerely thought that this was a revelation from Allah from God that is the, in the form of the Quran. And sometimes, you will find, especially them again, presenting this theory in a very lovely and romantic way. But the Prophet used to go in the desert, staring upward in the mountain in the cave. Look at the silence, during the silence of the night at the sparkling stars, and the soft light of the moon and the expanse of sand castle talks about waves which was quite a firewall, a very romantic texture in the silence of the night, sink and contemplate about the creation, who created
the about destiny of mankind and purpose of creation. And the ideas kept coming into his mind all that is a an in very romantic and beautiful presentation. But romantic, yes, beautiful, yes. But whether it really needs scholarly rigor in terms of its analysis and correctness, this is another thing. Now what argumentation or reasoning Could you put forward
that this explanation is in fact, in practice, it would not stand the test of good scholarship, okay. It does not stand it because you could possibly say that a human being may be under some kind of illusion for some time. Maybe for a few months, couple of years, even. You might even say that it could happen.
And you could say that whatever the
Some cells under this state of illusion may be, in fact, a product of his own thinking just is coming from his subconscious, you could possibly say that I wouldn’t dispute that much could happen.
But the point that is forgotten in this kind of theory is that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, he continued his message for a period of 23 years. And consistently, throughout this period, he reported exactly the same thing. But the engine was coming to him that he was dictating the Quran, he was uttering the Quran in front of everybody else. And everybody was keeping a record of that. Well to say that for 23 years, he was convincing himself that this person came from some outside source.
given what we know about his personality and his wisdom, he accused him of being some somebody who’s not really, but he, in fact, is, just totally doesn’t, doesn’t make any, any sense. But what is even more important is that, that this sort of visions or illusions, which is, which are only a product of subconscious, would have to be related to the individual’s own experience. In other words, if it came from his subconscious after it can basically from his knowledge, and his experience and his environment, if you will,
and as such, it reflects psychologically, his own thinking.
But when you objectively examine the Quran, you will find that our
ample evidence had been evidence
that there are so many things in the Quran that could have never been emitted from the prophets mind, whether the conscious or subconscious, this includes
the fact that in the Quran, there are mention of certain historical things that happened in the past that was not known to the Prophet, or to his people around him.
Now, you cannot say that this comes from the subconscious, it’s specific, concrete knowledge of what happened in the past. Secondly, in the Quran, there are prophecies about future events that are going to take place, and sometimes the description is so vivid and so clear. And these things came to pass in the exact way that the Quran mentioned. Again, how could that come from the subconscious?
Certainly, from a purely psychological point of view, there are many indications in the Quran and proofs that the nature of what is there in the Quran shows that psychologically could have not come from the own mind or on thinking of the Prophet, and just mentioning them in general, of course, each one of them has to be changed and analyzed. And of course, even from the purely scientific standpoint, we will find that there are certain things in the Quran that scientists have only discovered hundreds of years after the prophet and it was not not at this time. So again, how could he have that infinite knowledge?
To say something scientifically? And that was not known even for hundreds of years after his death? Again, how could this have come from his subconscious or his limited experience or knowledge, let alone the fact that he was an illiterate person.
in an environment which was nothing advanced in any science.
We mentioned each one of these
patches the challenge, maybe it might be appropriate for us to spend some time examine these two points, you’re looking first of all, at the question of information with respecting
past history.
How does this information about past history in the Quran show the Prophet Mohammed could not have been the author of the common European, but the Quran mentioned lots of stories about things that happened in the past all the way from the time of creation even on but not particularly well, lots of stories also about the prophets, previous prophets of the Prophet Muhammad, the serpent, and by the way, not all of these are identical to what we find in previous scriptures, like the Bible, for example. And this perhaps you can come to at a later time, when we speak about the the possibility that the Bible could have been the source of the Quran. That’s another topic altogether. Yes. And it
is well known that history is a specific knowledge. It’s not something that emanates because of insight and intelligence, specific information, something that actually happened in the past, so it cannot come from subconscious. I don’t don’t wait chemistry the person himself learning or learning that from other people. Now,
we have to, like they say you can have your cake and eat it.
If you’re assuming that he learned that history, or the stories in the Quran from previous sources, or Reddit himself. He didn’t know how to read or like even case information.
But
then of course, the assumption here would be that he knew from some other source and claim that this came from God, which would go into again, the deliberate fabrication, which you have discussed amply in some of the previous programs. So either we assume that, or you assume, as done in heaven, Allah said that it came from his own subconscious, but again, that’s illogical, because subconscious doesn’t tell you
history, it’s specific information, you follow the point? Now, the other thing is that some people might say, all right, well, maybe some of these stories of the prophets were not in general. So without deliberately, you know, giving a different source or anything, you might have this in the back of his mind, General acquaintance with what happened. But to answer that question, we find that there are amazing things in the Quran that shows that it’s very meticulous, and that this information did not just come by will have general familiarity at all. Take for example, the study of the Seven Sleepers are as known in Islam as
as described in, in Surah.
In the Quran,
not only does it mention the story of the Seven Sleepers, but it says and that’s an amazing part of it.
Well, Abby Sophy can see him. So let me see Nina was dead with Tessa. They stayed in their cave. That’s the sleepers 300 years plus nine.
It is put in such a strange way, why not say 300 years? Why 300 years and increased by nine?
If you keep in mind that the Muslims and Arabs in general used the lunar calendar. Yes. And if we know that the donor years is about 11 days shorter than the salary is
and if you multiply 11 days by 300 years, and divided by 365, you will end up with exactly nine years. And that is revealed to people who didn’t know calculation would never use this, as the Prophet indicated that and nobody chose not to and we are we are illiterate people. So for this meticulous expression to be mentioned in the Quran, one cannot say it was just a general seminar. And this is only that one example of it. But there’s even stronger evidence.
In the Quran, a challenge is made, which was not met by anyone, Muslim or non Muslim.
In Surah 11 verse 14, and after the Quran described some of these studies of the Prophet it says, did come in, come in and see her in a napkin Catalano, her Antara como Kanaka. It says this knowledge that we reveal onto on the hammock from the unseen. Neither you, nor your people had any knowledge of that before that is before the Quran was revealed.
This year, if this statement in the Quran was not true, if it were not true, I should say, then somebody could have say, No, I am an Arab like you I lived in the same environment and I knew this story. But no single person, even those who just wanted to bother him and to irritate the movement of the title of Islam or to stop it stomach could not even raise an objection say no, I knew it. Nor could any outside I said no, we know that you people are familiar with the stories, the challenges made and it is a fact that people actually didn’t know about that. The Prophet get this information. Again, we said that the subconscious is a very, very poor explanation of such meticulous and
detailed in some cases and very precise information. Similar citations just for the sake of time can be found, for example, in Surah, 12 in ASC in chapter 19, about the study of Mary, the mother of Jesus peace be upon him we find also there is mentioned of the same thing that these are new information that not the prophet or his companions, or people in his area, had any knowledge of that. That’s why we are oneness scholars of the Quran. Dr. Dress ended by saying that some of the opponents of the prophet in the past in his lifetime were smarter than some of the contemporary critics
orientation intelligent enough
not to say that, you know, you get this information from your subconscious or whatnot. But to make another acquisition that’s found, for example, in Surah 25, I find that Oh, these are stories, man, he must have learned from some other sources
that again, could not reply to the question that this was not known to anyone in that area. How did you get this information from
the question now have to
events are the the prophecies in the Quran, can you give a few examples of the prophecies that couldn’t have possibly come from the subconscious of the past? Okay, there are a number of them and all of them are characterized by definitiveness. It is not something that may happen, it’s put in such a way as if it’s something decided. None of the prophecies that you find in the Quran was proven to be false. And we’re talking now 1400 years after the Quran was revealed. Now, many people can say there are astrologers, there are many people who make lots of prophecies that come true. But nobody can say, without any fault. Even after 1400 years nursing and flow, in any profession, I
think that’s too much. You said that subconscious or contemplation. And after all, the prophet was neither astrologer or somebody who claims, you know, any other way of reaching information except what has been revealed to him directly from God. But some of these prophecies, for example, generate to
a definite statement in the Quran, that Islam will be preserved, it will be protected, its profit will be protected, its book will be protected from less or change. And all of these have proven to be absolutely
correct, none of which proved to be false. Just to give reference for those who might wish to make that assertion that a statement like that could be found in in 1420 450-916-6016, and many others. This is just an example of this kind of prophecies. But what is interesting is that many of these revelations came to the prophet in the second period. And that’s quite significant. Because in the second period, the Prophet and his companions were under severe persecution. And they had only a handful of followers, and mostly the weak and downtrodden people. And at that time, there was no way the one can predict or prophesied that they will succeed.
Not only this, historically, we know that there were many prophets and reformers, who came under circumstances where everything was in favor of their success, but all of a sudden they were killed or something happened. And the message was, how could anyone in the meccan period, under this very adverse conditions, protect with precision and definiteness, that this will happen and that we will have a look at it also, historically, after the fact,
in the history of Islam, there have been many tragedies, tragedy after tragedy, there have been lots of bloodshed, Muslims were murdered.
In the 1000s, and 10s, of 1000s. The their books were burned, copies of the Quran, were burned and championed upon
billions of dollars were spent, to try to confuse the message of Islam are presented, not in its reality to drive people away from that, despite all of that Islam continued to grow. And as many missionaries admit, it is the fastest spreading religion today. And both among
you know, people who are illiterate as well as among people who are highly literate, again, how could anyone
make this definitive type of prophecy that this will happen? For example, in Surah, in the Quran, in higher 24, a challenge was made, that even if the entire mankind, and jinn and sea creatures combined together to produce something, or imitate the Quran, they won’t be able to do it. You are now 1400 years or more after that, and nobody had that claim that he could have anything similar, not even identical, similar to the Quran in its natural beauty or contents. In surah, five in 67, there was definite promise that God will protect the Prophet. And as we said before, that was not necessarily the case with all profits and profits will come. But that was said and said very clearly
in the Quran. And that’s why as narrated an attorney and that hacking, it said that when this verse was revealed that God will protect you from people,
the profit, some people were volunteering to help, you know, allow God, he said, Go, God has taken care of protecting me. There were many other incidents in history where his life was at stake. And he was very cool, very cool and very comfortable because he knew that the promise of God in that verse
will be fulfilled and that nobody will be able to kill him. So in the most dangerous moments, he was chatting on the Prophet, there is no lie about it as narrated for you.
inquiry and mystery, and
there are prophecies about the general destiny of the believing group and the unbelieving group.
For example, in the famous verse in the Quran that God has made a promise, or had made a promise to those who believe and did good deeds, that he will establish the adulation for them, and that he will give them power, to run on earth, and so on and keep the reasons and the qualification that they have to have been good deeds and all that. And again, that came to pass. And as you know, when Muslims were through to their face, more than half of the non world was under the room and we had a civilization that was quite unique in its humanitarian orientation, as well as the great scientific progress that it attained. We discussed that in some detail in the series on economic system, in
sort of 48. There is mentioned also of the city of Philadelphia that will be analyzed at the leisure time, ever promise needed under the most adverse conditions, that all came to pass the cuckoo, None.
None of the trends of the practices that occur and speak about have proven to be untrue even after the passage of 14 entities. I do think that concern reasonably that all of these are a result of just wishful thinking on the so called the subconscious mind. We will have to complete our program with that. Thank you for watching and get you back next week as salaam alaikum peace
