again to Islam focus. Today’s program is the 42nd in the series verses of Islam to the West Pacific is the 10th program on the fantasy or the Quran and we will be continuing from where we left off last week and movie
wg Movado were with me and I’m your host, Chad Nish. So I like
to start off with a summary of last week’s program. Okay, last week, we started dealing with the topic of the arrangement of the Quran, that is the various parts within the Quran. And we indicated how the Quran is divided into a number of sutras or quote unquote, chapters, which is not a very accurate word. But sometimes we use it for communication, let’s say chapters. And each chapter is divided into is, again for communication purpose, let’s say verse, let’s say chapters and verses. And after explaining this, we compared that with the structure of the Bible to show how, you know similar or different it may be.
We also indicated that the sequence of the chapters in the Quran is quite different from the chronology or the orders of their revelation. The reason has been given for this is that the Quran was revealed in piecemeal, and many times the surah or the chapter was not already in that one. So there might have been something revealed in between.
On the basis of that, we made some comments on one of the very popular and common translation of the Quran into English, by n. j. Dawood,
which is a publication by the Penguin Classics, in which he put the orders of the Quran quite differently from what has been an animus among Muslims throughout history. And even though he does not claim to have put it strictly in terms of date, or orders of Revelation, the fact that he has the term chronological table and starts with the Nicki curly MKI revelations seem to indicate some sort of tendency to more or less what she called tamper
at well according to his own liking as to what should come first and second, rather than follow the order in which the Quran actually was preserved for the 1400 years. So we try to discuss that and show that there is no basis really for that at all.
We also indicated that some of the writers and historians, including Muslims, who have written something about the relative order of some of the chapters of the Quran, were careful to not to extend that to the whole Quran. And none of them suggested any publication of a different version, where there is different order than the author that we have found that it was the end, we discussed some of the reports that some of the companions of the Prophet like Ali, Baba, niqab and Abdullah have numerous
possessed collections, that is copies of their own, which has admitted our which had a little different orders or chronology than the one that you have in our hands today. By analyzing them, we found that this
reports by and large, are quite weak and not very strong in terms of authenticity. But what is more important is that by analyzing them, and examining them historically, they proved to be quite an talent that invest even if we assume for the sake of argument that this collections, personal collections didn’t exist, it could have been possibly collections prior to the completion of the violation of the Quran and the termination, sort of the Prophet about the exact order of each chapter in the Quran. Or in some cases just was a preservation of some incidents where the Prophet has cited some sources in the Quran in the prayer which would not be always in the chronological
order that they appear in the Quran. Thank you for the surgery
as the summers have suggested the wrongness of the Quran
By the length of two different servers themselves are going from language to service. Is there any truth to this? I don’t think so. We just prepared the little table here that might perhaps explain that and clarify the point.
You’ll notice here there are four
pairs of columns.
And which Parish, you have on one hand, the, the surah number, or the chapter number, according to the chronology that you have in the Quran that we have in our hands, which has been unanimous for 1400 years. And in front of that, we have something that would come close to describing the length of the chapter, not necessarily always, but the closest thing to compare really would be the number of verses. Of course Mind you, some of the verses might be longer or shorter. That it might be some indication, though. And if you examine this table carefully, you notice that
the question of chronology from
longer chapters to shorter chapters does not usually hold. For example, the very first chapter in the Quran, number one, is composed only of seven verses, the second one, which is the longest chapter in the Quran, 236. And then notice that there is some sort of
total descending orders, but it’s not consistent, you can’t really say about the 12 bet. But you’ll notice, for example, that chapters 13 and 14 are cultures that are 43 and 52. Verses consecutively. And if that theory is correct, Chapter 16 should be chapter 15, would be shorter, but in fact, it is much larger, it’s 99. Actually, from 15 to 21, you get chapters with lengths close to 100 verses or even more in chapter 23 is 180. And the previous one was 78.
down to 26. Again, there is no descending order, it’s actually more
if you compare, for example, with chapter 37, it comes in the middle, and it comes after chapters which are considerably shorter, maybe nine chapters prior to that are half as many containers as many verses, if you slip into the last
short chapters in the very last column, you’ll notice for example, but from one 102 to 114, are short chapters less than 10 verses each. However, there is no descending order. For example, the shortest chapter perhaps in the Quran, number 108, is composed only of three verses, but it doesn’t come at the end, the last one is six.
The table I think, proves conclusively that this whole idea about ordering the Quran, even approximately, you can even say approximately an order of length is not a very, very sound one, it’s untenable, and historically unsubstantiated.
slab was put in charge that way, then, okay.
That’s by topic. That was not an explanation either. In fact, if you notice from reciting the Quran that in any particular chapter, especially the longer one or medium sized one, it’s quite common to find that in the very same chapter, there are several topics covered. Some might relate to belief and faith in Allah or God, capital G, some relate to history of profits, some relate to social organization, economic structure, maybe an electoral program, perhaps you might touch on some of the wisdoms and reasons behind that but factually speaking,
there are new sources in the Quran or chapters, which deal simultaneously with a number of topics, not just one at the time. What are some references about Islam, particularly written by non Muslims have claimed that the author of the Quran is you know, totally haphazardly, now, unwrapped to a base the statement and maybe I’d like to get your comments on that. Okay, let me start first by trying to explain why they make that statement.
The reason they say it’s haphazard,
is that they say right, the Quran, as we have already indicated, is not
in the order of revelation of the various chapter because that’s impossible to do. We have seen the reasons in the previous program, okay. Secondly, it is not arranged by the law.
One of the chapters and that charts also have clarified the point. It is not arranged strictly by topic that there is one chapter for example, dealing with the economic aspect when dealing with face when dealing with fluids, they intermingle.
So, they sell right, in our human perception, in the kind of books written by other human beings, we are used to find some kind of order like that some kinds of basis for the arrangement of the book. And they conclude that since the Quran does not fit into any of those common ways that we humans classify, or subdivide the books were out, then it must be haphazard.
This is the foundation of basically of that claim.
But that explanation also is just as lacking in evidence as the previous three theories or assumptions.
Because how could it be, as we have seen from the history of how the Quran was compiled and put together and in one volume after the death of the Prophet? How could those people compile and preserve and publish the Quran
on the basis of haphazard
arrangement, because we all know that this process was a long process was open to everyone. It was a very meticulous process, and everybody has anything to say participated in that. So if it were haphazard, it means that any other haphazard mode of arrangement of the Quran would have been just as valid. So you would expect it to find a great deal of dispute and fighting as to which which of the haphazard arrangement is more valid, because if it SAP hasn’t been any other method would be just as as good. But we don’t hear of that and you find unanimity on the way the Quran was arranged. So you don’t put that unanimity that easily if it if it were haphazard, there’s no historical
evidence whatsoever to support any, you know, major difference in this respect as
that is why Indeed, we find that some writers who are even critics of Islam, possibly because of their religious background, or whatever other reasons, while they might make a great number of mistakes, about the Quran and Islam,
in some cases, when they come to the question of arrangements, they do not really claim as some scholars before then did, that the Quranic arrangement is simply haphazard, they refuse this kind of theory.
Okay, could you possibly give me an example of this last point, when I remember, for example, going through the new Catholic Encyclopedia, which was published in 1967, by the Catholic University
of America, in Washington, DC.
one of the things he had like many other encyclopedias and books written from outsiders standpoint, maybe errors in presenting the Islam and explaining the Quran, we find that at least some of the points were reasonably correct.
The adults with the Quran at least one aspect of the arrangement of the Quran has been accurate. On page 250. In the code, it says, the process of combination that is combination of the various chapters of the Quran, could hardly have been haphazard, as some scholars have assumed, it is difficult, if not impossible, to determine what principles and methods underlay the process. I think they were a bit more cautious than concluding that because we don’t understand what is the principle behind the arrangement, what is the basis of it, then it must be haphazard, it doesn’t seem to be haphazard arrangement at all, I suppose. logical next question would be who determined your origin
of the kroner a lot. And maybe we’ll begin with the verses of the Quran any indication that there was a specific order of the verses particularly well, during the life of the Prophet Muhammad? I think evidence seems to point to that conclusion that yes, as far as the verses within the chapters, there is no dispute whatsoever that I know of, on this issue, just to make a cross reference to some of the previous programs. It was indicated before, for example, that many people multitudes indeed, of people have early Muslims, memorized the entire Quran, all the 114 chapters, which come to about 6200
versus when, if there was no specific orders of 6200 verses, it means statistically that you could have virtually hundreds of 1000s of different combinations, which would have meant that each individual would have had his own Quran, for that matter, which of course is something impossible. On the other hand, we all know that the Quran was recited regularly, every day, in the five daily prayers, not only the required mandatory five prayers, but also in the optional prayers, that Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him himself. Love the prayers, and especially in the prayers where the leaders of the prayer recites loudly, he was reciting the Quran, sometimes big portions of the
Quran at the same time, which means I ended up there must have been specific and fixed parameters of the verses that he was reciting. In addition to this, we find that the Quran was recited quite frequently. Outside of the prayer, it was reported that many companions of the Prophet used to recite the entire Quran at least once every week, some, some some, even in a shorter period of time. Now, how did this before recite the Quran? unless there was a definite order of the verses they were reciting verse, it doesn’t make any sense for them to, to decipher.
And understand from your answer, then, arrangements are declared was in accordance with the instructions of the Prophet.
Yes, because after all, Prophet Muhammad was the recipient of Revelation, so he was receiving revelation. And he was just uttering the Quran the same way that he received through the engine of Revelation, engine, Gabrielle.
But in addition to this, what I might consider simple and logical reason, we find also documentary evidence historically, that confirms the same thing. For example, according to Abu Dawood, production of prophetic sayings, and early Islamic history,
it was narrated that us man who was the third killer, after the Prophet A few years after the death of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, reported that it was customary with the Messenger of Allah that the Prophet Muhammad, that when a person of different
chapter was revealed to him,
that whenever a particular verse or group of verses are revealed, of that chapter, he would call on one of the scribes of revelation secretaries, as you might call whatever, scribes of Revelation. And then he instructed him that he says, I like or place these verses, in Acts chapter, whatever chapter in the place where the verse before that says so and so. In other words, everything was directed through the prophet to be placed in its proper location, in any particular chapters.
In addition to this
report in Abu Dawood, we find that other references also like tirmidhi and Ahmed and very narrow other evidences which are which are in direct but very relevant. For example, in Bukhari,
it says that the Prophet used to give a special
place and importance to the last few verses in the second Surah, or second chapter of the Quran, known as Al Baqarah.
in Abu Dhabi route, for example, he reported to have recommended the recitation of the first 10 verses of Surah Al Qaeda, literally the cave or surah, number 18.
In Bukhari, he also gave some indication about the virtues of recycling the last few verses of the third surah of the Quran and that he used to recite those verses in his night, optional prayers.
As there are numerous examples, these are just you know, a glimpse of this. And the fact that the Prophet says, All right, these first few verses, or these last few verses of a given chapter, are highly commendable for recitation in certain occasions or whatever. It signifies the fact that the there was a specific author of those verses in the lifetime of the Prophet and that he directed people and they knew
Okay, Professor just fit in each surah
of the Quran left to his own discretion?
That’s a good question. Also, it seems about a number of good reasons to believe that it is true that the Prophet was the one who directed Muslims to arrange the Quran the way it is, or to adjust the verse verses in this specific chapter,
it is impossible to assume that he was the one who invented that on his own or just made it on his own discretion.
The reason being is that numerous reports by the prophet himself, and by the people around him, always indicate that the mode of revelation was the engine of Revelation, Gabrielle comes to him, he dictates to him certain passages of the Quran and the Prophet simply attack that after the engine of Revelation, which means, of course, the engine of revelation was dictating to the Prophet, the Quran, in the specific order of these verses.
The other thing that was discussed in greater detail in the segment of this year is dealing with the authority of the Quran. And the miracle of the Quran from the lecture and scientific and other aspects, indicated that the Quran was revealed in piecemeal small part here and dirt, over 23 years, sometimes commenting on certain events, and not also as well completed at the same time. However, by the end, the Quran was put together,
everything fitted like the glove and the hands. And the flow literally of the meaning goes quite nicely, the flow of meaning during the style of the Quran also goes very nicely. And that is definitely beyond any human capacity to anticipate the future, right, something that happened later on to fit in the middle somewhere, without any introduction of the meaning, or the literally style. So that again, seemed to indicate that it could have not been the ingenuity of the precipice, no matter how great he might have been, to put it, in this miraculous format that was kind of before. Another thing that was mentioned before, just to make a cross reference is that we indicated that
Angel Gabrielle, the Angel of Revelation, used to come to the Prophet at least once every years during the fasting month of Ramadan, and reviews with the prophets what was revealed up to this point, and then the last year of the life of the Prophet, the Quran was reviewed fully, twice. And in that last one, there were a number of companions present, including zeidner sabot, who is regarded as the chief scribe of revolution and the one who took the measure, or leading
to hit the committee that
compiled or put together the various parchment or pieces of the Quran. That was, we’re in different places. In addition to this, if I may conclude that particular point, in addition to all of these historical and logical reasons, that lead us to believe that the Prophet did not even arrange it on his own. There is another
you might tell you to pause, which is even very explicit. That proves the same thing. In the collection of ultimate about prophetic tradition. It was reported that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said to his companions, he said, Angel Gabrielle came to me, and he commanded me, he commanded me to plus this particular verse, in the close, in the surah, surah, swansong and the verses swansong, and he refers particularly to Surah 16, and verse 19. So the Prophet itself was reporting that he was directed, there is no reason to believe that this was not always the case, because that seemed to be consistent with the additional evidence we just discussed.
So far, we’ve examined the arrangements or the orders of the versus within the chapters. Okay. How about the owners of the chapters themselves? Is there any unanimous feeling on this? There was something close to unanimity. But we have to be again, perfectly clear on that, as was our custom in this programs to present even ideas that we do not accept that doesn’t have a strong evidence, just for the purpose of clarification.
In fact, as schiffman not look upon in the book that we refer to before.
In page 140, he summarizes the opinions of jurists on this issue.
And he said the there are basically three opinions. One that says that, unlike the arrangement of versus the arrangement of chapters was less
To the companions of the Prophet, that it didn’t make much difference, so it was less to them.
The second opinion says that there is evidence that some of this chapters were arranged upon the commandments of the Prophet, but the others the companions did, or just applied some judgment. The third opinion, which we believe is the much more supportive and strongest one is that the entire arrangement of all the chapters in the Quran was, as they call kokichi, something that the Prophet actually instructed and gives specific information about
as we build also in similar programs, we have to discuss each of the opinions not just to conclude that one is weak, and the other strongly must be some good reason also,
as far as the first opinion, that it was left to the companions. The evidence given was the evidence that we discussed in previous program, especially in the last program, some of the reports that some companions had private collections of the Quran, which had a slightly different order. Not that they are very serious. But as we indicated in the previous program, that’s one foot chapter four before three, or something like that very minimal ones.
But we have already responded to that by indicating that historians and the students of Hadith or prophetic tradition
have indicated that they are very weak and not necessarily particularly authentic type of reports. The second opinion that says most of the sewers in the Quran, were arranged upon the instruction of the Prophet and only a few left to the companions, uses the evidence for the one that were left to the companions, the evidence that was used by the first opinion and as such, again, it could be refuted on the same grounds, the lack of authenticity,
as well as the third explanation, which is the most common, which I could consider it’s more or less, the closest thing you can get to unanimity really, is that the entire arrangement of the Quran
has been a clinical instruction of the Prophet. There is ample evidence on that historically and logically, especially in view of the points mentioned before that a view that jabril because the last review, in the last year of the life of the Prophet was done twice for the whole Quran. So there must have been some order, there were people present. So it could have not been something that is really sacred or anything like that. And the other good reason also is how to explain the unanimity or near unanimity of Muslims on the Quran as it’s arranged today. One further point that seemed to confirm this kind of explanation.
Is that in the Quran itself, in Surah, Chapter 75, in verses 17 and 18,
na na na Khurana that Allah says in that verse, surely on us, on that is on Allah arrests, the collecting of it, and promulgating it.
Now the original Arabic word is Gemma that Allah says I take care of Jana of the Quran. And German Arabic is a term which refers both to collection as well as arrangement because collection alone without arrangement does not make much, you know, yes. So both of these evidences
seem to point out to the strengths
of the third position, which is basically the common position held by Muslims past and present. Well, I think we’re at the top back once again, Dr. dinardo. And we thank you for joining us here once again. Hope to see you again next week.
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